Jared Crozier: Pageau & Dzingel file for arbitration

Pageau is an interesting case. I think he is capable of being a 20 goal guy, although perhaps not in this system.

And as you said, he will always be a fan favorite here.

I do expect him and Dzingel to improve their numbers though next year.

Pageau = minimum 3M per, probably 11.5M over 3 years

^('')that's crazy more like average 1.7m to 2.3m ...he's not a 20 goal scorer.he's a very solid 2-way player able to play up and down the lineup if he gets 3m avg/yr we overpaid

Just finished listening to Methot on the TSN radio thingy and I'm still reeling from the loss even though I've done all the rationalizing. Why the f*ck didn't they go 4-4-1? Why did they protect Dzingel and Brassard. The latter was 5 million they could have got off the books who would be easily replaceable. I would much rather have seen Claesson go as he is still a pretty unknown quantity even though has a perceived upside. This is akin to letting Spezza go for nearly nothing (despite the blind back-passes). I feel like we'll never have a legit #1 power centre. Sux.

Just finished listening to Methot on the TSN radio thingy and I'm still reeling from the loss even though I've done all the rationalizing. Why the f*ck didn't they go 4-4-1? Why did they protect Dzingel and Brassard. The latter was 5 million they could have got off the books who would be easily replaceable. I would much rather have seen Claesson go as he is still a pretty unknown quantity even though has a perceived upside. This is akin to letting Spezza go for nearly nothing (despite the blind back-passes). I feel like we'll never have a legit #1 power centre. Sux.
- sgoodwin

yup

If Nate Thompson is $1-2 mill player, what does that make Dzingel?

I do agree 4-4-1 would have made more sense. Would they have taken
Dzingel or Pageau if that is who they left?

Being a lifelong Sens fan in the heart of the Leafs market comes with a lot of ups and downs - but the consistency we have each year of being "meh" in the offseason is always such a buzzkill. The team finally does something to really rally the fanbase and management lets it all wash away

If Nate Thompson is $1-2 mill player, what does that make Dzingel?

I do agree 4-4-1 would have made more sense. Would they have taken
Dzingel or Pageau if that is who they left?
- Ottawa Fan

They'd protect (imo)

Methot Karlsson Ceci and Phaneuf

Brassard Turris Stone Hoff

So they'd lose Pageau or Claesson I think.

Pageau = minimum 3M per, probably 11.5M over 3 years
- AlfieFever

I compare him to Darren Helm in Detroit or Andrew Shaw in Montreal but with less years under his belt. They are solid and versatile role players that don't score at an elite rate but can be difference makers in games. They both come in around 3.75M per season Pageau is also one of Ottawa's best faceoff men.

Being a lifelong Sens fan in the heart of the Leafs market comes with a lot of ups and downs - but the consistency we have each year of being "meh" in the offseason is always such a buzzkill. The team finally does something to really rally the fanbase and management lets it all wash away


- tryhard

Is it incompetence or trying to get ready to resign guys like Karlsson, Pag, Turris, Stone, Hoff, etc who will all be receiving raises when contracts are up?

Personally, i'd like to see a little pitch to add after being a goal away from the final against the team who won who had very little trouble winning the final. But that's just me.

The Sens were gonna lose a player everyone was going to complain about one way or another. Sucks to lose Methot, but I think the bigger conversation should be how he will be replaced. Claessen I don't think will be that guy, but I think the organization has big plans for Chabot. Which could come back to bit you if you rush him.

F Pageau

Just finished listening to Methot on the TSN radio thingy and I'm still reeling from the loss even though I've done all the rationalizing. Why the f*ck didn't they go 4-4-1? Why did they protect Dzingel and Brassard. The latter was 5 million they could have got off the books who would be easily replaceable. I would much rather have seen Claesson go as he is still a pretty unknown quantity even though has a perceived upside. This is akin to letting Spezza go for nearly nothing (despite the blind back-passes). I feel like we'll never have a legit #1 power centre. Sux.
- sgoodwin

Is Brassard that bad?

No, I like Brassard and I like what he's brought to the squad. I just don't think I'd protect him over Methot who seemed to have a much more important role in the organization.

Is Brassard that bad?
- rangerdanger94

No, I like Brassard and I like what he's brought to the squad. I just don't think I'd protect him over Methot who seemed to have a much more important role in the organization.
- sgoodwin

Hard to know for sure who vegas would have taken if different guys were exposed, but judging by what VGK have been doing they don't seem to want good players on their team at the moment, so they would have taken whomever they thought would fetch the most in a trade (which Brass would have been tempting for)

I like Pageau, but not as much at $3-$4 mill a year.

No, I like Brassard and I like what he's brought to the squad. I just don't think I'd protect him over Methot who seemed to have a much more important role in the organization.
- sgoodwin

Noooo way. Brassard is relatively a bargain, had a down year scoring but his underlying numbers were pretty good. Plus, the optics of losing Zibby and a 2nd for nothing would just be too bad for Dorion to swallow

This is the type of guy Eugene is--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biovail

People ask why are the Sens not trying to capitalize on their near cup series.
Why didnt they add 1 or 2 more rentals at trade deadline to make a big push

The Sens under this current ownership and the trickle down effect. They have no desire to win a cup or hockey sense to know what they even have and were surprised with the result of being in a game 7 Eastern final. Yes we hear they have to save money for Karlsson,Turris,..... whoever. There will always be the promise of something better to come.Its like having a carrot dangled in front of the cart carrying all the money.
This years playoffs with a typical Eugene catch phrase was ALL IN... a poker phrase meaning all our chips have been pushed in its either win big or go home.Except the SEns didnt do that. To quote the best poker movie of all time -- If you dont know who the sucker is in the first 30 minutes at the table...you are the sucker...How fitting.

Lets heare from Eugene

Just finished listening to Methot on the TSN radio thingy and I'm still reeling from the loss even though I've done all the rationalizing. Why the f*ck didn't they go 4-4-1? Why did they protect Dzingel and Brassard. The latter was 5 million they could have got off the books who would be easily replaceable. I would much rather have seen Claesson go as he is still a pretty unknown quantity even though has a perceived upside. This is akin to letting Spezza go for nearly nothing (despite the blind back-passes). I feel like we'll never have a legit #1 power centre. Sux.
- sgoodwin

Regardless of absurdly subjective labels like "legit #1 power centre", the vast majority of prominent scoring centres in the game are drafted and retained by one team throughout the most productive years of their career, so in practical terms we're talking about whether the likes of White, Brown, or Chlapik have more potential upside than Turris and Brassard have now. And until some of those prospects show that they can produce effectively at the NHL level, both Turris and Brassard have considerable value to the team. By the same token, you'll have to share with us the list of 'easy replacements' for Brassard that you've got worked out, because scoring line centres aren't actually that easy to come by.

Conversely, Methot was left unprotected because he was going to have to be replaced within the next 2 years one way or another, because once Karlsson gets his extension they won't be able to afford to pay someone $4.9M/yr to play the 4th most d-man minutes, where they score literally 0 goals and are incapable of PP time. It's nice that Methot had good chemistry with one of the best defenceman in the world, but if Karlsson really is one of the best defenceman in the world he will be able to make this transition without nearly as much trouble as some people seem to be thinking.

People ask why are the Sens not trying to capitalize on their near cup series.
Why didnt they add 1 or 2 more rentals at trade deadline to make a big push

The Sens under this current ownership and the trickle down effect. They have no desire to win a cup or hockey sense to know what they even have and were surprised with the result of being in a game 7 Eastern final. Yes we hear they have to save money for Karlsson,Turris,..... whoever. There will always be the promise of something better to come.Its like having a carrot dangled in front of the cart carrying all the money.
This years playoffs with a typical Eugene catch phrase was ALL IN... a poker phrase meaning all our chips have been pushed in its either win big or go home.Except the SEns didnt do that. To quote the best poker movie of all time -- If you dont know who the sucker is in the first 30 minutes at the table...you are the sucker...How fitting.

Lets heare from Eugene
- spazzbot

Exactly.
IF the Sens retained Methot AND added a Duchene (Chabot would help us land him - and no I'm not saying made that deal but Ceci, White, a 1st+ would be enough) then the Sens could have spent money in free agency and this team would be contenders next year under Boucher.

To Dorion's credit he tried hard to move Phanuef but that didn't happen. When you team is the ONLY team that was 1 goal away from beating the best hockey team in North America, I think that says something about what your willing to do to make it go over the top

Exactly.
IF the Sens retained Methot AND added a Duchene (Chabot would help us land him - and no I'm not saying made that deal but Ceci, White, a 1st+ would be enough) then the Sens could have spent money in free agency and this team would be contenders next year under Boucher.
- AlfieisKing

So just to confirm, in your mind the difference between having Brassard and Duchene is worth Ceci, White, a 1st round pick, plus $1M/yr for the next 2 seasons? Because they already have two scoring centres, which means you're effectively making one of them redundant (and at this point Turris is better than either of them).

Here are the numbers for Brassard and Duchene over the past 3 years...

Player 1
14/15 - 82GP-21G-34A-55Pts
15/16 - 76GP-30G-29G-59Pts
16/17 - 77GP-18G-23A-41Pts
Total - 235GP-69G-86A-155Pts

Player 2
14/15 - 80GP-19G-41A-60Pts
15/16 - 80GP-27G-31A-58Pts
16/17 - 81GP-14G-25A-39Pts
Total - 241GP-60G-97A-157Pts

Honestly, does one of those players look like they're worth Ceci, White, a 1st round pick, and $2M more than the other? Because to a GM working on a small-market budget, that's a pretty big stretch of the imagination. I'm also interested to hear all about how retaining $4.9M/yr for Methot and adding a $6M/yr centre would make the team MORE likely to be spending free agency money this year... or how you would plan to get any kind of remotely fair value for Brassard once every GM in the league saw that Dorion would basically have to make a trade.

Oh right, maybe a Duchene trade wouldn't be such a great idea after all...

Just finished listening to Methot on the TSN radio thingy and I'm still reeling from the loss even though I've done all the rationalizing. Why the f*ck didn't they go 4-4-1? Why did they protect Dzingel and Brassard. The latter was 5 million they could have got off the books who would be easily replaceable. I would much rather have seen Claesson go as he is still a pretty unknown quantity even though has a perceived upside. This is akin to letting Spezza go for nearly nothing (despite the blind back-passes). I feel like we'll never have a legit #1 power centre. Sux.
- sgoodwin

Although I thought the same thing initially about loosing Methot, apparently his underlying numbers away from Karlsson weren't that great. In comparison, cleasons numbers were better than methot ( corsi) paired up with and without karlsson. I think brassard is a great bargain at a younger age than methot and due to our prospect pool, keeping brassy was a lower risk move.also brassard strikes me as a player that takes more time than the average player to adapt to a new team...took him a while to grow in rangers system as well. He is a playoff performer no doubt and now that he's learnt the coach's system I think he will be stronger offensively as the Sens aim to work intensively on powerplay formation for the next season. Sens have a lot of capable defensemen in their system and need to utilize them. I think it's an unfortunate scenario but I am confident the sens will move on and will continue to take a step forward. Don't forget we still have another solid hitting d in Borowiecki. He will be the guy who will enforce and inject energy in the lineup.

So just to confirm, in your mind the difference between having Brassard and Duchene is worth Ceci, White, a 1st round pick, plus $1M/yr for the next 2 seasons? Because they already have two scoring centres, which means you're effectively making one of them redundant (and at this point Turris is better than either of them).

Here are the numbers for Brassard and Duchene over the past 3 years...

Player 1
14/15 - 82GP-21G-34A-55Pts
15/16 - 76GP-30G-29G-59Pts
16/17 - 77GP-18G-23A-41Pts
Total - 235GP-69G-86A-155Pts

Player 2
14/15 - 80GP-19G-41A-60Pts
15/16 - 80GP-27G-31A-58Pts
16/17 - 81GP-14G-25A-39Pts
Total - 241GP-60G-97A-157Pts

Honestly, does one of those players look like they're worth Ceci, White, a 1st round pick, and $2M more than the other? Because to a GM working on a small-market budget, that's a pretty big stretch of the imagination. I'm also interested to hear all about how retaining $4.9M/yr for Methot and adding a $6M/yr centre would make the team MORE likely to be spending free agency money this year... or how you would plan to get any kind of remotely fair value for Brassard once every GM in the league saw that Dorion would basically have to make a trade.

Oh right, maybe a Duchene trade wouldn't be such a great idea after all...
- khawk

I totally agree with you...duchesne is one of the most overrated players in the league and can't defend if his wife's life was on the line. He would be a terrible God awful fit for the coach's system. There is a reason why no team has offered what Sakic wants, they just don't see that potential anymore. To be frank I wouldn't even trade ceci alone straight up for him. I think he will end up generating a call loadable trade as what Taylor hall generated for the oilers. Sens have a system that depends on where responsibility...duchene is getting old to break those bad habits. Let another team have him. Sens should filocus on acquiring another solid goalie.prospect.in case Condon Nevers Makes it as a number one tender. Anderson is a couple years away from retirement.

People ask why are the Sens not trying to capitalize on their near cup series.
Why didnt they add 1 or 2 more rentals at trade deadline to make a big push

The Sens under this current ownership and the trickle down effect. They have no desire to win a cup or hockey sense to know what they even have and were surprised with the result of being in a game 7 Eastern final. Yes we hear they have to save money for Karlsson,Turris,..... whoever. There will always be the promise of something better to come.Its like having a carrot dangled in front of the cart carrying all the money.
This years playoffs with a typical Eugene catch phrase was ALL IN... a poker phrase meaning all our chips have been pushed in its either win big or go home.Except the SEns didnt do that. To quote the best poker movie of all time -- If you dont know who the sucker is in the first 30 minutes at the table...you are the sucker...How fitting.

Lets heare from Eugene
- spazzbot

Good points. I always come across as the negative nancy on these boards, so I have tried to play the optimist route generally. However, I just don't know why you wouldn't try to capitalize on a great run.

Like honestly, the Pens are the only team in the way in the East now with Washington looking like they are imploding.